The ORIGINAL Aztek Fan Club

AZTEK GARAGE (Peer Support) => POWERTRAIN/PERFORMANCE UPGRADES => Topic started by: alaska AV on January 08, 2017, 04:49:23 PM



Title: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on January 08, 2017, 04:49:23 PM
I have been gathering parts together to do this to a friends 05 Asstek , her name for it. its an 05 2wd
installing a supercharged 3800 from an 04 Buick REGAL GS

been working up to the swap for over a year. stripped 2 pars cars, ordered fancy electronics and craigslist parts collected. been taking my time but I hope to have it done by march.

I've done a few swaps over the years, this one has a fair bit of challenge to it for me.

today I hope to get the 3800 into the asstek, id upload some pics but it looks like I have to link to pics here?

(http://i.imgur.com/rn47wz0.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/dIRaZhF.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/xnjgBi7.jpg)




Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: Majora097 on January 09, 2017, 08:04:53 PM
Dude that sounds amazing! I'd love to see some pics. I believe you have to link them, try imgur.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on January 10, 2017, 12:27:52 AM
ill figure out the pics.

 would have the engine into the car today but I discovered some asshats broke into my garage and ripped me off. kinda spent the day in a pissed off haze >:(


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on January 11, 2017, 04:27:45 AM
have some pics on this facebook group, Altered Elevation


https://www.facebook.com/groups/944808955585533/

engine is in , so much to still do


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: Majora097 on January 11, 2017, 11:59:14 AM
I can't wait to get home and see the pics. My school blocks fb sadly :'(


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on January 11, 2017, 10:59:07 PM
http://jontwilson.imgur.com


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: Lambokit on February 11, 2017, 10:20:59 AM
New to the forum. Question? How are you going to get around the security features built into the PCM? Are you going to re-flash the Aztek's PCm with the 3800 S/C info? Or be flashing the 3800's PCM with the Aztek's codes to match the BCM identifiers? Also. are you using the Aztek's original trans or using the 3800 HD trans?  Just wondering  because I'm wanting to do this to my 03 Aztek.
Keep us posted and good luck!


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: Tronman on February 10, 2018, 12:28:52 AM
Wow, it looks to fit right in..

Also <3 the license plate!!


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: BlueGT on February 10, 2018, 09:16:07 PM
She hopes to have it done by May.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: wstefan20 on February 13, 2018, 08:38:09 PM
She hopes to have it done by May.

Sweet! I really need to know a bunch about this build. I'll be hopefully closing soon on a 2003 aztek with a blown engine and doing this swap! Already got most of the parts lined up.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: Tronman on February 15, 2018, 03:51:41 PM
So I'm curious as to how it's working out for completed vehicles with this mod.  How big are the gains in acceleration, top speed, etc. versus the losses in fuel mileage and reliability?  Does the rest of the car (body computer, vehicle dynamics, all wheel drive if applicable) play nice with this bigger power plant?


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: wstefan20 on February 15, 2018, 07:32:11 PM
So I'm curious as to how it's working out for completed vehicles with this mod.  How big are the gains in acceleration, top speed, etc. versus the losses in fuel mileage and reliability?  Does the rest of the car (body computer, vehicle dynamics, all wheel drive if applicable) play nice with this bigger power plant?

Good question! The 3400 in the aztek produces 185hp at 5200 rpm and 210 ft/lb of torque at 4000 rpm whereas the L32 supercharged makes 260hp at 5200rpm and 230 ft/lb at 4000 rpm (but doesn't peak there, it goes to 380 ft/lb at 5200 rpm). While this doesn't sound like that much, the biggest difference comes not at stock, but in performance applications. There's no argument that the 3800 dominates the 3400 in the availability and amount of options for performance upgrades. Even stock the torque is nearly double, but when you figure for a few hundred worth of mods, a gp can easily make as much as 500 hp and still be reliable.

As far as reliability, the only real issue for both the 3400 and the 3800 were the lower intake manifold gaskets. The 3800 n/a had the plastic plenum egr issue, and both had the plastic coolant elbow issue, but all these items are pretty easy and cheap to fix. Both of them can last into 300,000 if properly maintained. Definitely no "loss" in reliability.

As far as fuel economy is concerned, I can't comment with any real data yet on the aztek, but for the grand prix's the 3.1l (almost the same as the 3400) got 20 city and 30 highway where the 3800 got 18 city 28 highway, though admitedly, I get 20 city 32 highway in my gp. The biggest factor in gas comes with the fact the supercharged requires 91 octane to run correctly wheras the 3400 doesn't, but it really doesn't cost that much more per fillup. It also depends on wether you have a "lead foot". So while the 3400 is slightly better on gas, its not as big of a "loss" as you'd expect from gaining all that torque.

While I can't say for sure until I do the swap, the drivability shouldn't decrease with the 3800 as the suspension is literally identical between the two. The only reason the AWD wouldn't work is because there has never been a stock supercharged versitrack vehicle and as of right now, there's no way to "morph" the 3800 engine tune in place of the 3400, it's all or nothing. The transmissions are identical with the exception of the gear ratio which can be tuned for. The big issue is that you definitely can't use the gp tune since the gp used manual pcm gauges instead of class 2 data, so a regal or impala would be a better candidate, though the only difference between the equipment is the software, so if you have a flasher, it doesn't matter which harness you grab as you'll have to modify it regardless. The only way you could possibly get AWD is if you ran dual pcms and used the Aztek one to control the transmission and maybe a few other things and the supercharged pcm tune to control the engine and everything else. Admittedly that would be a wiring and logistical nightmare.

Basically it comes down to what your priorities, goals, and budget is. If you're simply looking for a stock engine replacement and don't plan on using it to tow or do and mods or performance oriented things, absolutely choose the 3400. If you already have a good 3400 and don't intend on doing any performance things, I'd leave it. If your engine is blown (like the one I'm about to buy) and isn't rebuild-able and it costs the same for both engines to get from the junkyard and you have some extra time on your hands and enjoy doing that kind of stuff, it only makes sense. No, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who hasn't done a lot of work on cars or someone who would be paying someone else to do it, as it probably isn't worth the time frustration or money to you. That being said, I have no doubt that it will make the driving experience much more exciting, and whenever a stock v6 mustang who thinks they're the sh*t badmouths my aztek, I'll be able to easily stomp them, which trust me, is priceless.  ;D



Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: Tronman on April 14, 2018, 01:12:42 PM
"That being said, I have no doubt that it will make the driving experience much more exciting, and whenever a stock v6 mustang who thinks they're the sh*t badmouths my aztek, I'll be able to easily stomp them, which trust me, is priceless."

This comment:  also priceless!!

This almost makes me wanna go buy a FWD Aztek with a blown engine so I can do this swap ;-) ;D


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on April 25, 2018, 02:07:28 AM
well its been some time. this has been one hella chore. It been a back burner project, and life knocked it off the stove a few times...

Anyhow it now starts and runs in the asstek with the buick ECM, with the key...lol.
its on a blended harness with 1 ecm.
a few bugs to work out, the one that bugs me most is the body bag light comes on when the Pcm is powered...wtf


well more later


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on April 25, 2018, 02:20:02 AM
wstefan20  very good post you made


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on May 01, 2018, 11:15:03 PM
guess I'm talking to my sell now...hahaha not the first or last. 

Well bought a new tool to poke around in the computer systems and pulled a B1001 out of the body bag sys. guess its cause by the ECM and the BCM have 2 different Vin # . I'm running off the buick ECM and the buicks vin is intact. cant change that, i think...

now what?


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: GTABill on May 03, 2018, 06:15:52 PM
Actually I think there are tuners out there that can change the VIN on those.  When I say tuners, I mean speed shops with people who are fluent in reflashing computers etc. and not one of the handheld tuners that you buy for performance lol. I know there is an individual on the Trans Am site I frequent that found out the reason his TA was throwing particular codes was because the ECM was replaced and had a different VIN.  He took it to a shop that had HP tuners (I think), and was able to either change the VIN or at least make it think it was the right one.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on May 05, 2018, 11:34:20 PM
I use HPTuners.

unfortunately they don't have support for the Asstec.  HPTuners can change the vin but you have to buy the 2 pcms/vin numbers and the mixed tune...300$ or 6 credits total. but again no support on the asstec vin...  I have this question on the HPT forum and had 30 views no replies.

Thanks though your the first real comment.

 The friend that owns the car doesn't seem to care at all. I'm just picky ,I guess. I don't like lights on my projects when done


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: GTABill on May 07, 2018, 07:51:15 AM
No problem.  Hope it gets worked out.  I don't like lights on the dash either.  I just happened to remember reading about that situation over on the other site.  Stinks that there is no support for the TeK.  Doesn't really surprise me though.  Not much of anything for the TeK other than interior/exterior upgrades.  Its difficult finding motor upgrades/etc that aren't outrageously expensive.  I finally found a "speed shop" locally that kinda specializes in the 2.8/3.1/3.4 motors so I may be taking it there to get the heads/intake gone through and get a cam installed to give me a little more umph and strengthen it up if I want to turbo it someday.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on May 11, 2018, 02:40:19 PM
my whining over at HPTuners did something.  'maybe' they didn't tell me but it looks like the Asstec is supported now... was finally able to save the stock tune in readable format . hasn't helped with the body bag light but at least the system enables with the seatbelts clicked in

its running fairly well now. found a vacuum leak through the egr system. fixed wireing issue with the 02's... big difference. couple more issues and ill test drive it..


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: GTABill on May 16, 2018, 10:33:49 AM
That's some good news!  Maybe someone is actually listening out there lol.  Keep the updates coming.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on June 01, 2018, 10:40:25 PM
 >:(
found a coolant leak from the stock coolant elbows. rotted junk!  The front valve cover was cracked also , so I had to dig into her . Slapped some paint on a couple parts. I hope to get it running again this week.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: wstefan20 on June 06, 2018, 07:46:30 AM
wstefan20  very good post you made

Thanks Alaska! Definitely can't wait to see how it turns out! Unfortunately I couldn't get my wife on board with the swap, so looks like I'll be refreshing things instead. Might go as far as head gaskets.

And what srs code is it throwing? I'd lend you my scan tool if I was anywhere near you! Lol


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on June 09, 2018, 12:12:04 AM
Well drove the Asstec tonight.... didn't know what to expect. but seams to be ok. More shake downs to go. nice to see the concrete it was covering for 6mo.. the exhaust didn't go as planed, the parts I wanted to use wouldn't fit. So using more scrap parts I made an 'S' adaptor pipe from a Buick down pipe to the Azteks rear pipe. fricking fuel tank was in the way. Had a cat powder on me during the 'making it run' phase. sand blasted the fuel tank a bit... ugggg. fixed now, lol. All the gauges work except for the bodybag light being on... It does arm ' with the seatbelts clicked' so Im sure they will deploy... bums me out


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on June 09, 2018, 07:44:57 PM
https://www.facebook.com/jon.wilson.505/videos/1943756658992253/


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: Pontiac6KSTEAWD on September 03, 2018, 12:22:44 PM
jealous am I. I want to do this, but want the AWD version. Theres suppose to be a way to use a Volvo tranny, as it was built by GM, that was HD. But have not dug to much into the info on it yet. The problem I think is going to be the rear dif, since it is hydraulically activated dif.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: lonewolf04 on April 04, 2019, 09:54:38 AM
Just curious what parts you used for the fuel lines or did they line up from the 3400? Same as the EVAP line that runs up as well.

As far as the B1001 code, did you ever get that figured out? If not and if you have a Tech2 you can go into the BCM --> Special Functions --> Setup SDM part number in BCM. It should display the VIN present and you have the option to change it. Usually the B1001 is from a mistmatch VIN between the BCM and SDM.  There is also a New VIN selection and you could get all to match.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: HulkakaJose on September 16, 2019, 11:08:49 AM
Is there a list of all things needed for the swap? I thought I had seen a post with all parts needed but I can't find it.

Thanks


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: lonewolf04 on September 24, 2019, 12:00:48 PM
Is there a list of all things needed for the swap? I thought I had seen a post with all parts needed but I can't find it.

Thanks

Pretty much a donor vehicle:

You will be merging the aztek and donor vehicle wiring harnesses. Aztek harness will keep fuse block, power/ground cables, wiring to interior, exterior lights/fans, trans, and brake module.
Donor car you will be merging over all the engine wiring. Make sure to pin the PCM the same as the donor vehicle as you will be running the donor vehicle pcm.
Have to merge the 3800 exhaust from the donor to the azteks exhaust.
Fuel lines, as they are in different locations on the motors and different fittings for the EVAP, delivery and return lines.
I kept the accelerator cable and cruise because I haven't gotten mine in yet and unsure if the aztek ones will be long enough to reach.
Use the 3800 lower engine mount.
Could be more, still in my swap process.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: HulkakaJose on September 25, 2019, 12:41:27 PM
Got it, well hopefully you can get yours up and running. I will definitely stay tuned for this and keep the parts list handy. Thanks


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: lonewolf04 on September 30, 2019, 06:38:55 AM
No problem. Mine won't be done til next summer I'm sure. While I have all the drivetrain out I will be fixing some rust and doing some prevention on the underbody as well.


Title: Re: Another 3800 sc in an Aztek
Post by: alaska AV on October 01, 2019, 09:19:04 PM
year 14 update..  The Asstek runs and drives, just not much...lol Its getting brake upgrades, stereo , push button start....  some ?'s
fuel system, cut aztek ones at the brake booster area and spliced in the 3800 ones. brass insert and crimps.
Ac, used the 3800 hoses and modified one. haven't charged it yet. no clew if it works
Body bag system, no change. Don't have a tech 2, but want one...
Hud, says check gauges because of air bag light

got to go....