Welcome to the site! Take a minute to register and join us. It's FREE! (and fun)
The ORIGINAL Aztek Fan Club Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
Always stay logged in

Login with username, password and session length
Home Gallery Help Login Register
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Need Help Diagnosing...Engine Died and Won't Start  (Read 2895 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
crfonck
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« on: September 27, 2011, 08:47:26 PM »

Got my 2002 Aztek about 8 months ago and finally ran into an issue I need help on from the Tek community.

While running on the highway Sunday, the Tek sputtered and died.  After coasting to the side of the road, it would crank and sputter but not re-start.  I had it towed back home, but I'm lost as to the issue.  When trying to start the car, the engine seems to crank ok, but sputters like it is not getting enough gas.  But then if it does fire briefly, it runs rough like the timing is way off, then dies quickly. I can hear the fuel pump run for about 3 seconds when turning the ignition, so I'm not sure it is a fuel pump issue.

I unkooked the battery negative and re-connected after a few minutes.  After that, I noticed the fuel guage went way past full.  I turned on and off the ignition about 4 more times...each time the gas guage went farther down until it would set to 0 when ignition is off and 3/4 when ignition is on.  Not sure if that is related, or a product of systems re-setting after the battery unhook.  There is a check engine light, but I'm not able to check it at home, and I'm not sure if a shop could check it if the engine doesn't start.

Ok, and suggestions on what the issue might be?  Does this seem like a sensor issue?  Are there sensors for crankshaft timing that if bad, would cause these symptoms?  Does it seem like any other sensor, like a throttle position?  A friend suggested ignition coil packs can go bad and possibly cause this.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Chris
Logged
97drexelgrad
2006, 2007, 2008 International Aztek Rally Organizer, Paid Member,
Global Moderator
Lifetime Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6233



« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2011, 09:17:37 PM »

C305 connector under the drivers seat.  This harness Passes through the body and runs under the Tek. It contains wires for the fuel pump, rear abs sensors and more.  Do a search for the c305 ectomy
Logged

Brian, NJ
Current owner of 2011 GMC Sierra SLE Crew Cab 4x4 6.2 l
403hp 420tq

Former owner of a 2003 Aztek Yellow, McCullough HID 6000k Headlights, Xentec HID 3000K Yellow Fog Lights, LEDS on all 4 Markers and Reverse Lights, Recon Strobe Lighting, Pioneer 10 speaker stereo, Infinity BassLink2 Sub, Precision Interface Electronics GM12-AUX, XM Roady XT, Helo Tease Rims with General Exclaim 245/40ZR20 tires, EBC Dimpled & Slotted Front Rotors, EBC Yellowstuff Pads, K&N Air Filter, Remote Start, kids car seat, Custom Dual Exhaust , Recon Big Rig Amber Running / Signal LED Lights, Side mirror LED Signal Lights, Line of Fire and Ice Brake Light, Monro Air Shocks in Rear, B&M Transmission Cooler, Garmin NUVI 350 GPS,  LEDs everywhere, Rear camera with night vision and 7 inch color monitor, GM Hood Deflector, Diehard Platinum Battery, American Flag / Bald Eagle on Rear Window, Fleetwood Camper,with LEDs and camera also, towed behind Tek ,
 2006, 2007, 2008 International Aztek Rally Organizer.  Email me @ 97drexelgrad@aztekfanclub.com
crfonck
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2011, 09:24:02 PM »

I think I found this connector earlier tonight.  There were 2 plugs of about 8 pins each that plug into a "junction box" thing under the driver's side of the car.  Both plugs had uwater in them, and the larger plug also has green corrosion on several pins in the harness.  I tried to scrub the connectors and shake out the water.  Didn't make any difference in starting.  The engine still tries to start, and if it does fire, it sputters and chugs hard and dies quickly.

If the corrosion has ruined the connector, do I need to replace it some how?
Logged
97drexelgrad
2006, 2007, 2008 International Aztek Rally Organizer, Paid Member,
Global Moderator
Lifetime Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6233



« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2011, 09:58:35 PM »

Several members here simply cut out that harness completely and soldered and shrink tubed the wires.  It's not a GM recommended fix, but is cheaper, a DIY project and does the same thing as replacing the harness
Logged

Brian, NJ
Current owner of 2011 GMC Sierra SLE Crew Cab 4x4 6.2 l
403hp 420tq

Former owner of a 2003 Aztek Yellow, McCullough HID 6000k Headlights, Xentec HID 3000K Yellow Fog Lights, LEDS on all 4 Markers and Reverse Lights, Recon Strobe Lighting, Pioneer 10 speaker stereo, Infinity BassLink2 Sub, Precision Interface Electronics GM12-AUX, XM Roady XT, Helo Tease Rims with General Exclaim 245/40ZR20 tires, EBC Dimpled & Slotted Front Rotors, EBC Yellowstuff Pads, K&N Air Filter, Remote Start, kids car seat, Custom Dual Exhaust , Recon Big Rig Amber Running / Signal LED Lights, Side mirror LED Signal Lights, Line of Fire and Ice Brake Light, Monro Air Shocks in Rear, B&M Transmission Cooler, Garmin NUVI 350 GPS,  LEDs everywhere, Rear camera with night vision and 7 inch color monitor, GM Hood Deflector, Diehard Platinum Battery, American Flag / Bald Eagle on Rear Window, Fleetwood Camper,with LEDs and camera also, towed behind Tek ,
 2006, 2007, 2008 International Aztek Rally Organizer.  Email me @ 97drexelgrad@aztekfanclub.com
jaskispyder
100 Club Members
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 200



« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 06:52:51 AM »

Yup, I bypassed my 305 connector.  If you want to save your connector, you may have to take each pin out and sand off the gunk.  I also ran into an issue were the wire was corroding also, so it may be best if you remove the connector and bypass it.  I didn't have water in mine, but mine was still bad.
Logged
crfonck
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2011, 08:03:12 AM »

Given my symptoms, does the C305 harness seem like the issue?  I can hear my fuel pump run when I turn the ignition, and the car tries to fire and run, but sputters and chugs hard for a few seconds before dying.  Would issues with that plug cause those problems?  Just want to figure out what may be the most logical first step before I cout out the harness.  Thanks
Logged
97drexelgrad
2006, 2007, 2008 International Aztek Rally Organizer, Paid Member,
Global Moderator
Lifetime Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6233



« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2011, 09:54:31 AM »

are you sure it is the fuel pump running?  I know that when you first put the key in, there is a diagnostic check that occurs, a noise is made, but I think it may be the ABS or something else?

Many others here had very similar situations, and even mechanics told them that they needed new fuel pumps, only totry the C305 connector first.
Logged

Brian, NJ
Current owner of 2011 GMC Sierra SLE Crew Cab 4x4 6.2 l
403hp 420tq

Former owner of a 2003 Aztek Yellow, McCullough HID 6000k Headlights, Xentec HID 3000K Yellow Fog Lights, LEDS on all 4 Markers and Reverse Lights, Recon Strobe Lighting, Pioneer 10 speaker stereo, Infinity BassLink2 Sub, Precision Interface Electronics GM12-AUX, XM Roady XT, Helo Tease Rims with General Exclaim 245/40ZR20 tires, EBC Dimpled & Slotted Front Rotors, EBC Yellowstuff Pads, K&N Air Filter, Remote Start, kids car seat, Custom Dual Exhaust , Recon Big Rig Amber Running / Signal LED Lights, Side mirror LED Signal Lights, Line of Fire and Ice Brake Light, Monro Air Shocks in Rear, B&M Transmission Cooler, Garmin NUVI 350 GPS,  LEDs everywhere, Rear camera with night vision and 7 inch color monitor, GM Hood Deflector, Diehard Platinum Battery, American Flag / Bald Eagle on Rear Window, Fleetwood Camper,with LEDs and camera also, towed behind Tek ,
 2006, 2007, 2008 International Aztek Rally Organizer.  Email me @ 97drexelgrad@aztekfanclub.com
crfonck
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2011, 10:53:00 AM »

My only reason for leaning away from the c305 plug is because I had no intermittent issues beforehand, or any fuel gauge/dash issues.  The Tek was hunning away on the highway and just sputtered and died.  When I try to start it and it briefly fires, I have also tried to pump the gas.  Doing this seems to keep the engine runniing for about 2-3 seconds before it dies (albeit poorly).  Does that seem more likely a fuel pump and/or fuel pressure regulator issue?

I'd hate to dump $290 into a fuel pump and not be the issue.  Thanks
Logged
Wolfy1969
100 Club Members
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 197


« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 03:13:07 PM »

Sensor wise, it COULD be the cam position sensor, as I'm having the same crank/no start problem now, but mine is because of a whole different problem and I know why it's doing it.  When you crank the motor, there's a tooth on the camshaft that trips a magnet in the camshaft sensor.  This generates a signal that's sent to the ignition module and says 'the camshaft is here - fire a spark'.  In my case, the morons who built my shortblock put a cam in that's missing that tooth.  No tooth = no tripped magnet.  No tripped magnet=no signal to ignition module.  No signal to ignition module=no spark.  No spark=crank but no run.  Crank but no run = really heavy Aztek paperweight. 
Obviously, your won't have this tooth missing, but the rest of the chain applies - if the camshaft sensor has gone bad, or any of it's wiring, it may not be sending signal to the ignition module to fire a spark.  Best to get that code read somewhere, and/or see if you have spark at the coils and at the other end of the plug wires.

Another possibility in the same area, is the 7x crankshaft position sensor on the back of the motor.  Usually, it's not the sensor itself but it's wiring that's the problem here.  This is the purple/yellow twisted pair 2-pin connector that plugs into the back right of the ignition module.  This twisted pair is in some split loom tubing and goes through a plastic stand off that's intended to keep it away from the hot (and sharp!) exhaust manifold.  After years of extreme heat and vibration, first the stand off breaks and falls off, then the split loom tubing melts, breaks, whatever and it too falls off leaving bare wire.  This bare wire now rests right against the hot and sharp manifold which will in time rub the insulation away.  What you can end up with is one or both wires with bare wire showing either shorting to each other or either or both to the manifold (short to ground), OR, one or both wires severed which results in no crankshaft signal to the ignition module. 

My old engine had the stand off gone, almost all the split loom tubing gone except a little at either end, and BOTH wires had their insulation rubbed down to bare wire in the same spot, so the sensor was shorted out before it ever reached the module.  Since the wires weren't broken, I separated the twist a bit, wrapped each wire in electrical tape, then re-twisted them, wrapped the whole repaired area in electrical tape, put the whole wire in new split loom tubing, and re-routed it to come up around the alternator side staying completely away from the manifold.
Logged
crfonck
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2011, 01:09:33 PM »

I'm afraid it may be more than a sensor.  I took the oil filler cap off the valve cover and watched the valve springs move as I cranked the engine.  Springs didn't move.  Now it most likely is a broken timing chain, crank shaft, or one of the cam shafts.  Several guys I talked to seem to think the timing chains hardly ever break on these, especially as 115k miles.  I more tham like are looking at $1,200 - $2k depending on partial engine rebuild or swaping a used replacement.  Don't have the cash for either option, so I'm screwed.  Not sure what to do at this point.  My wife and I are really dissapointed, not only in the engine breaking down, but the Tek really suited us well. Undecided
Logged
97drexelgrad
2006, 2007, 2008 International Aztek Rally Organizer, Paid Member,
Global Moderator
Lifetime Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6233



« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2011, 10:03:08 PM »

Just curious??? Where do you live?
Logged

Brian, NJ
Current owner of 2011 GMC Sierra SLE Crew Cab 4x4 6.2 l
403hp 420tq

Former owner of a 2003 Aztek Yellow, McCullough HID 6000k Headlights, Xentec HID 3000K Yellow Fog Lights, LEDS on all 4 Markers and Reverse Lights, Recon Strobe Lighting, Pioneer 10 speaker stereo, Infinity BassLink2 Sub, Precision Interface Electronics GM12-AUX, XM Roady XT, Helo Tease Rims with General Exclaim 245/40ZR20 tires, EBC Dimpled & Slotted Front Rotors, EBC Yellowstuff Pads, K&N Air Filter, Remote Start, kids car seat, Custom Dual Exhaust , Recon Big Rig Amber Running / Signal LED Lights, Side mirror LED Signal Lights, Line of Fire and Ice Brake Light, Monro Air Shocks in Rear, B&M Transmission Cooler, Garmin NUVI 350 GPS,  LEDs everywhere, Rear camera with night vision and 7 inch color monitor, GM Hood Deflector, Diehard Platinum Battery, American Flag / Bald Eagle on Rear Window, Fleetwood Camper,with LEDs and camera also, towed behind Tek ,
 2006, 2007, 2008 International Aztek Rally Organizer.  Email me @ 97drexelgrad@aztekfanclub.com
crfonck
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2011, 02:19:58 PM »

I live in Iowa.  Got a detailed estimate on a repair.  About $2,800 for the engine swap.  Apparently the best price the shop could find was about $1,500 on a motor with 80k miles.  They are getting a premium on engine pricing in the midwest due to lack of availability and demand. The rest of the cost would be the swap.  Way too much for us to pay, and obviously about 2/3 of the total value of the car.  Not worth it for us.

Trying to trade it in and possibly get $500-700 for it.  It's a sad day.  We loved the size and utility of the Tek.
Logged
Wolfy1969
100 Club Members
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 197


« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2011, 07:43:07 AM »

Where in Iowa - I'm in IL just east of the Quad Cities - there's a guy on Craigslist who has a 3400 with tranny and cradle with 109k miles in Rock Island who wants $800 for the whole thing...
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Theme Underground Yellow